Laura Grassi on Building a More Human Tech Culture

Known online as Kibum, Laura blends her passion for frontend development with a flair for storytelling that resonates far beyond TikTok.

On this episode of What the Code, Laura opens up to X-Team CEO Amit Sion about her path from customizing Tumblr pages to leading development for X-Team’s community platform. She shares what it’s like to be both a developer and a digital creator, how X-Team changed her perception of trust at work, and why she’s embracing backend development as her next challenge.

Blending Gaming, Content, and Code

Laura’s entry into tech didn’t begin with a formal course—it started with pink Tumblr pages and League of Legends. “At first I started liking computers because I do enjoy doing things,” she says. “I got obsessed with customizing my [Tumblr] ... so that’s the moment when I actually started looking for something”.

Gaming remained a throughline. Her nickname Kibum comes from a blend of her favorite ice cream and a K-pop group, and her content is rooted in humor, relatability, and digital life. “This is why I'm creating content, not just related to myself… Sometimes I tell stories.”

Whether creating skits about Zoom meetings or spotlighting the quirks of developer life, her videos show that coding doesn’t have to be cold or clinical—it can be creative, funny, and deeply human.

Building Real Connection in a Remote World

At X-Team, Laura found more than a job—she found a culture of trust, creativity, and community. She works on X-Team Universe, the company’s gamified social platform. “I’ve been able to work with so many different stacks and technologies,” she says. “I made new friends while I'm trying to compete... everything makes you talk to people.”

Her first X-Summit, an in-person gathering for remote X-Teamers, enhanced this experience of connection. “I mean communication can be complicated sometimes,” Laura says. “So you actually might not know everything about the person, but you have an idea [after meeting] about how these people might be talking to you.”

That in-person bonding gives context to remote communication, softening the sharp edges of text and helping distributed teams thrive together.

Expanding Her Skillset on Her Own Timeline

While frontend development is still her specialty, Laura is now learning Go to deepen her backend skills. “I will never stop being a front-end developer,” she says. “But I would like to be a full-stack with frontend and actually working with Go in the backend”.

For Laura, growth isn’t about comparison; it’s about trusting your own pace. “Take your time. Not all people are going to have the same time,” she says. “Don’t get other people’s stories and say that this needs to be yours”.

Whether she’s sharing her journey through code, content, or community, Laura reminds us that confidence isn’t about perfection. It’s about showing up with curiosity, creativity, and compassion for your own path.

Transcript

Amit Sion:

Hello and welcome to What the Code Show here in the X-Team studio live in Sao Paulo. I'm very excited with our next guest, who is Laura, a friend and a colleague. Laura, welcome to the show.

Laura Grassi:

Hi, I'm Laura. I work for X-Team and I am also a creator of content here in Brazil. I mean, people know me more about Kibum, but it's not actually my real name nor nickname or anything. That's my user from League of Legends so I made this a thing.

Amit Sion:

Well, I have so many questions, but let's start with that. How did you come up with the nickname, Kibum? What was the origin of that?

Laura Grassi:

Very weird, because I don't know if you know the ice cream called Eskibon. It's the ice cream here in Brazil that is called Kibon. And, I really like it. I mean, I still love it. I used to eat those almost all the weeks. I know it's so much, but this is an ice cream that I actually love so I was first joining League of Legends and I thought, "Oh, I need a really cool nick." And then, I thought, "Oh, I'm going to be Eskibon, my favorite ice cream," but unfortunately they already have. So, I started combining things and in the end there is also a K-pop group that I love by the time that this guy's name was called Kibum. Then I thought, "It's the perfect mix," and I don't know why but, works. And the PNG just came because most of my friends say, "Oh, you look like PNG because you're so transparent and things like that." So, this is why .png.

Amit Sion:

It sounded like it was meant to be. All the universes were aligned for you to become Kibum. How did you get into being a social media influencer because you've got quite a large following. You produce some really engaging videos. Even for me that doesn't understand Portuguese, I still tune in and quite like watching them. How did all that start out?

Laura Grassi:

Well, when I was a teenager, I saw many YouTube channels and some Twitch lives, and my dream was to be a streamer, but, I mean, my computer was not supporting me. I was supporting myself, but my computer definitely didn't want me to be a streamer. So, I started doing some kind of YouTube content related to League of Legends that is my favorite game. So, I mean X-Team is also my dream because we work with Riot so, yeah. Anyways, so I started doing some content related to League of Legends, but after a while I understand that YouTube channels are not meant to me. I mean, I don't have enough patience to actually edit and record so long videos and usually, especially now, YouTube videos has usually 10 minutes, five minutes. It's too much for me.

So, after a while I just started on TikTok and back in the time it was called Musical.ly. That is a different app, but it's almost the same but, yeah. And, I started there and I started recording my cats but my cats, after a while, they're just so lazy that they're not doing pretty much nothing so I didn't have anything to record. I started doing some kind of lip-syncing related to Disney and all of this but after this I needed to create original content because when you create original content on TikTok, you might be able to have the verified sign and I wanted this so badly, but I started doing related to games. I started doing streamings, but at the same time I was working as a software developer and, I mean, even knowing that I play, there's a bunch of content related to players and I couldn't see many related to software developer or anything like this, and I thought, "Oh, that might be my chance."

So, this is how I actually started. After a while, I would just start going very well. People are like, "Oh, I know what you mean. I also love. This always happened to me." And, fun thing is because different from X-Team, which I appreciate you guys so much, before I used to create many contents and not all of my contents are related to me or related to things that actually happened to me. Sometimes I just listen to someone's history and I'm like, "Oh, I could create something about it," but many of my comments is like, "Your boss is going to fire you seeing this video." And, I'm like, "Guys, this not even happen at X-Team or anything. What are you thinking?"

Amit Sion:

This is so interesting because I think a lot of people who view your content are probably thinking, "Oh, I want to do that. I want to be like Kibum. I want to get this audience and have this social media following." So, it's really interesting to hear your story and the different parts that grew it. Firstly on Musical.ly, I know it as well just because I remember when my daughters were, I don't know, eight, 10 years old and Musical.ly was popular and they were doing the lip-syncing to all those slow motion songs. So, I am guessing there's some good ones out there of you doing that, Laura, for us to find.

Laura Grassi:

No longer.

Amit Sion:

Have they all been flushed out and disappeared off the internet? You've managed to secure all those?

Laura Grassi:

Yes. When I start to gain a bunch of followers, like 10 followers, I just thought, "Oh, I need to delete those. Just delete before this becomes something. I don't know..."

Amit Sion:

Yeah. Get rid of all the embarrassing older content. But, at what point did you find that it... Did it just click? Was it overnight there was a particular video that got a lot of following or was it a progressive rise to get that verified and to get all those followers through that?

Laura Grassi:

It was more progressive because, even though that you have a very trained video, this does not mean that people will actually follow you. They mean that they might like your video, they might share your video, but doesn't mean that they're like, "Oh, I like this content. I'm going to follow." So, it's very hard to grow up. At least for me it was. Still being very hard but it's a fight. It's a battle, everyday battle.

Amit Sion:

And, you're on TikTok, LinkedIn and Instagram?

Laura Grassi:

Yes.

Amit Sion:

And, do you post the same content on the different ones or do you alternate based on the different platforms?

Laura Grassi:

TikTok and Instagram are pretty much the same, but related to LinkedIn, sometimes I do some kind of jokes that people might not actually get it because LinkedIn people are more intense than they are on Instagram. I think because LinkedIn people are almost searching for a different content. Then I try to post more serious content on LinkedIn. Other ones that I kind of do some jokes but not will actually offend someone if they... The thing is to be offended because, in my case, I actually do jokes about everything, software developer, designers, recruiters, everyone, because life is simple guys, it's just about kidding. But, on LinkedIn, if you say, "I don't like apples," people will be like, "Why you don't like apples? Why? You need to like apples." So, that's the main reason why I prefer just posting more serious content. People get along better.

Amit Sion:

Well, see, I find LinkedIn, not only is it serious, I find that a lot of the content is either boring or it's boastful. It's like, "Hey. Have a look at me. I'm at this conference. Look at my name badge." Whereas I think it'd be nice to give them something, give your audience something that they can hook into, something that is either some new information that they can learn or something that is perhaps a little funny, a little entertaining, just so that it stands apart from the others. I find that when I do that, I've actually shared something that people connect with more.

Laura Grassi:

That's also true, but I do appreciate people posting my like, "Oh, I went to event" I love seeing those because this way I can actually see something outside my reality. Because, for me, I mean, I know the events that I usually go, I know what we have here, but sometimes looking for other people, I can just look and say, "Oh, I wish so badly to go there too. Let me see if there's going to be another day or maybe next year." So, I kind of enjoy seeing this.

Amit Sion:

Something that I'm very curious about is, when you post content, do you have an idea of what you think might trend and how much have you gotten to understand how to predict what will work and what people will like?

Laura Grassi:

Usually, in my case, to be honest, I don't actually know, but sometimes I have a feeling like, "I think this might be the one that we go very trend," but, I mean, I'm not always right, but sometimes I have this kind of feeling. Usually the most things that, at least in my case, got viral is things when you are actually saying very common things that everybody experienced the same. For example, I did a tomato video that I'm actually just grabbing a tomato and saying, "Oh, POV, you're the tomato from my burger because I don't like tomatoes, but I like things with tomatoes," and I just did this vlog and get many views because I think everybody just experienced pretty much the same. And, the ones that actually tomato was there to criticize me like, "Oh, you don't like tomatoes, but you do like ketchup?'

Amit Sion:

You got the lovers and the haters. That way, you got both parts of the audience. There was one post that you did that I really connected with, which was, your meeting's about to start and you just quickly rush into all the things that you have to do in that one minute just before the Zoom call starts. And, I think for a lot of people working remote, you really click in with that, that watching the clock about, "How much can I quickly sneak in before we all show up to that call?" And then, I think anything where your cat's in the background always helps.

Laura Grassi:

Yeah. My cats, they are the actually star for my channel. I can say this. Many times when I'm recording, I mean, especially technical content that I'm now starting doing more, one of my cats is always sitting me and every time there's a bunch of comments saying, "Oh, I couldn't pay attention. I was just paying attention on the yellow cat."

Amit Sion:

Can I ask you, you were saying one of the things that started you with it all was League of Legends and your connection to it, was that what inspired you to get into development, to get into the tech space?

Laura Grassi:

Even before I start actually playing and playing games, I mean, my family always have played many video games so I always get some kind of connections with those but, at first I started liking computers because I do enjoy doing things. And, I don't know if you remember the past Tumblr platform? It was a blog that you can actually customize your page so I got obsessed with customizing mine with pink stuffs and hearts and everything related to this. And, for you to customize and actually create a page very in your way, you actually have to do some programming.

So, that's the moment when I actually started looking for something, started to learning a little bit on the internet. I didn't get to know a bunch, but I know how to fix things and to make kind of look the way I wanted. So, this was my start and, after a while when I started playing, I actually wanted to be a game developer but I ended up kind of giving up because, here in Brazil, it's hard to become a game developer. And, back in my time when I really wanted this, working remotely, especially for companies outside was not actually a huge thing or at least people are not talking about it so I kind of gave up.

Amit Sion:

For us, it's quite exciting that we do have the opportunity to work with some great game companies with X-Team, with Riot Games and Epic Games and others, and that they value that they can find great developers from everywhere in the world, which we provide. I think most of us who have done development at one stage, we were inspired by wanting to do game development, but there is so much more to development than beyond just games. What sort of development work do you do at X-Team?

Laura Grassi:

I'm actually a full-stack developer right now, but I'm not focused on the front end and I work in the most exciting platform for the core team that's called XTU, so X-Team Universe. It's our community platform so I'm a huge fan.

Amit Sion:

That's awesome. What excites you about it?

Laura Grassi:

Well, there's so many things. First of all, related to development, I've been able to work with so many different stacks and technologies, which is so great for me to be able to learn. And, related to the platform itself, it's wonderful because, first of all, I can actually meet people. Usually, on slack, at least me, I'm kind of shy. I wouldn't be just going to someone and say, "So, hi. How you doing? How are you? Who do you work for? Let's be friends." But, on XTU, I'm being able to actually meet people because... So, you saw a post, you saw someone doing a quest, especially the introduced one, where you can see their face, you can see a bunch of the people's story, and you can actually come and say, "Oh, hi. That's nice. I'm also enjoying this." And, then you can start talking and after this we have the compliment that is X-Team events where you can actually meet those person. So, I think XTU and X-Team events, they work pretty much together.

Amit Sion:

Well, because so important when we have this opportunity that we want to provide people access to work remote, but we also want them to feel connected. There's such a difficult element around the world of, I really believe, a loneliness epidemic where people are feeling disconnected. And so, for us hiring people from so many different countries, we want them to feel connected to something. So, both with events in person, but XTU is really unique because it's a opportunity to connect remote. Can you tell us a bit more about what XTU does? I think it's a good opportunity for us to hear from you how it connects people together.

Laura Grassi:

Well, XTU actually has many, many, many things that might be done there. Currently, we have... How can I explain? If I need to explain how XTU actually operates, I think it's a gamified social media because it's almost like a RPG game, but at the same time, it's social media because you have basically the quests and when you complete the quest, you can gain experience or you can gain coins. And, these coins you can actually use to buy some of our vault items like this one, the X-Team. Oh, yeah. This one is my current favorite. I'm trying not to use too much because... Anyway, so you have many possibilities.

We also have the chat where you can actually communicate with people. And then, we also have the theater, where sometimes we have some bunch of events. We watch movies together while we are typing on the chat. We have also the radio and live streams. So, all these things together actually make you connecting because at least one time you'll be joining any X-Team event and it might be happening on XTU. Usually they are, but they might be happening there so you probably will try to just at least talk to someone, their comment, do some comments, and after a while we'll be able to actually find this person.

Or, for example, this year we have the season. We have houses and these houses are competing, but you also competing as an individual. I didn't win anything. Thanks, Paolo. Because, you won everything that I was trying. I mean, Paolo is something else, guys. He is so determined like, "Oh, I'm going to win," and he does. I don't know how but, anyway. So, I actually have the ability to compete with other people and meanwhile I made new friends while I'm trying to compete because I was trying to compete and after a while I have to comment, "How are you doing this course? You need to tell me." So, you start actually talking. So, everything may make you talk to people.

Amit Sion:

Isn't that wonderful? And, we have this amazing leader here, Mario, who's our VP of experiences and that's his driver. He's wanting people to feel connected, to feel that they have an opportunity to get to know other X-Teamers so that they're not feeling like they're working alone, that there's a whole community that's there to support them. So, yeah, there's cool merch that you can get, but in order to do that, you got to get involved. And, once you get involved, like you said, you make friends. And, that's so wonderful because something that we need. We're social creatures. Even if you're introverted, we need friends, we need people that we connect with to chat. It's actually part of our mental health to have that. So, I think it's wonderful and it inspires me being in this company to have a company that sees that as such an important element to connect people together. And so, that's why I think it's so awesome that you are such an integral part of that building that for us. How did you actually get into X-Team?

Laura Grassi:

In my case, I didn't know X-Team before I joined, which was really weird because apparently everybody here in Brazil does know X-Team. I was the only one there. I've been hiding I don't know where, but so Edu Chapola and Fabio, they connect with me on LinkedIn and they started saying, "So, we have a role here, an open role. We want to know if you'll be interested." So, I do all the process and I end up... I mean, at first, I'm going to be honest with you guys, I thought it was a scam because, to my reality, this was way too good to be true. They're talking to me about the community, they're talking to me about the Unleash. I really thought this was a scam because it's, I mean, too good to be true but when I first joined I still was like, "Hmm, so this is actually true. This is so nice." And, I started recommending everybody like, "Hey, guys. Let's join X-Team. Try it. There's the portal. Get the roles. Try to join there because it's super cool."

Amit Sion:

Isn't that wonderful when you think about a job being too good to be true? I think that's just beautiful. I think, if we're doing that, then we're doing something right there. And, it's so neat that you were headhunted for the role. They saw you online and got excited about the opportunity to see if you'd be interested in coming in. You mentioned the Unleash. Do you want to explain a bit about that? What is Unleash and how have you used your Unleash over the years?

Laura Grassi:

Unleash, it's a budget but I don't know if it's exactly this word you use, but it's kind of a budget that you have per year when you actually can purchase things and get it funded. So, you can purchase many things. You can purchase courses, you can purchase things for your office. I mean, my use usually is for books-

Amit Sion:

Nice.

Laura Grassi:

... because I'm a huge fan, Star Wars things and some skins on League of Legends and Overwatch. So, that's my common user. So, I'm telling you guys, you can actually refund anything. It's amazing.

Amit Sion:

The great concept about it is that it's different to your salary because your salary you'd use for rent or for the groceries or for mortgage or whatever. Unleashed was always about unleashing something within you that inspires you. So, for me for example, I use it for my guitar lessons and for buying another guitar, which my wife says I have too many of. For you, so many things within Star Wars. I think another great element is that we try to encourage people to use it for their travel because we have this concept of not working from home but working from anywhere and wanting people to feel like they've got an opportunity to live a very inspired life. I met with one X-Team engineer and in one of our outposts in Kyoto, and she said to me that if she was just getting the Unleashed as just part of her salary, she wouldn't be in Kyoto because it would just go into the boring stuff of life that we need to pay for but because you have to use it for these different categories, that led her to be in Kyoto and discover a different part of her life, which I think is great. Have you had an opportunity to travel much with X-Team?

Laura Grassi:

Unfortunately, I just joined my first outpost a couple of months ago. I never have the opportunity to go to one. And, it was so funny that, I mean, you guys started a fight in my family because everybody wants to join. They're like, "So, what's the next year outpost? I want to go. I want to go to this place. You're going to take me." And, I mean, "Oh, guys, okay." Luckily, now we have more as extra Unleashed to use for the outpost because I'm definitely going to need it.

Amit Sion:

Yeah, because you were in Pipa this year, right? That was your first one in Brazil?

Laura Grassi:

Yes.

Amit Sion:

So, yeah. Next year we've got South Korea and we've got Bali. We've got some pretty exciting places but I must admit my family are more excited to come to Brazil because they hear about how much I love it when I come here so they're keen to see Brazil as well. Is there a place in the world that you are wanting to get to, either with Unleash or beyond that you'd recommend?

Laura Grassi:

Well, to be honest, I really wish to travel to Japan and South Korea but, in my case, I couldn't by the time that they went to Kyoto and I'm still looking for if I will be able to go to South Korea next year with the outposts. I wish to go to Italy too but, I mean, South Korea is kind of far away from my home so let's start with the most wanted and then I go for the other ones.

Amit Sion:

There's something quite awesome about traveling with work I find because, when you're traveling with vacation, you're having to put work on pause and figure out all the different things you want to do. To be able to travel with work and to be able to work with it, I think there's something quite magical about it because you're there with your colleagues, you're all still doing your day-to-day, you're just doing it in the magical new place, which I think is quite exciting. Yeah. I think it'd be amazing for you to see South Korea through that rather than, I don't know, I make it sound like through a vacation would be more boring than doing it with X-Team where it's all organized for you.

Laura Grassi:

Actually, traveling with more people is always more exciting than actually traveling alone or with just your partner because, first of all, you might actually know new people. I made a bunch of friends on the outpost and you can also have more fun because people are telling different stories. You can even know more because some people there, we are exchanging knowledge so this was great. We are working together and we're like, "Oh, so you can do like this." It was very funny I thought. I mean, I wasn't expecting this because I was like, "Whoa. It's kind of vacation but I have to work so I'll probably just be seeing people after my work shift," but no, I actually was seeing people everywhere, anytime, every time.

Amit Sion:

Yeah. That one that we were at together in Pipa was really quite neat in that some people were working for clients in the US and were working certain time zone alignments. Some were working for clients in Australia, some for the UK, so they all had their focus time that they were putting in, their eight, nine hours or whatever but then it meant that you had other friends alongside with you working at the same time. And then, you could also either do a breakfast together or do a dinner together. And, I find that you work differently with people once you've met them in person. Don't you think? Once you've met with someone in person, there's a different way to how you interact in the future when you're back online?

Laura Grassi:

Yes. I do think so because I think you can get related more. Sometimes when we're online, my mom has the saying that, when you're typing, no one can actually say your feelings while you're typing. You can say the same phrase and people can actually understand in different ways, but after you actually meet someone, you can kind of grab the way you imagine people saying that to you so it's even more easier for you to have a better interpretation of the text.

Amit Sion:

That's wise. I like your mother's perspective on that, that you're getting an interesting layer beyond the keyboard, beyond the words, as to what they're actually feeling because you've gotten to know the person and their personality and how they interact, right?

Laura Grassi:

Yeah. My mom always used the phrase exactly like this, but in Portuguese of course, I could type for you, "Amit, you're so silly." They could mean, "Amit, you're so silly." And, it can also be, "Amit, you're so silly." So, this is why she always say that kind of understanding the person that you are actually talking to is better for you to understand everything and, I mean, communication can be complicated sometimes so actually meeting someone and you can get along with this person so you actually kind of not know everything about the person, but you have an idea in how these people might be talking to you. So, I mean, it's wonderful.

Amit Sion:

You made me think of something. With regards to what someone's typing, sometimes when we engage new companies, they're not used to working with people remote and they say, "But, how do you know that they're working? If I can't see the developer, how do I know that they're actually working for me?" And, I think just because someone's sitting next to you and tap tap tapping on a keyboard, how do you know that they're working? They could be doing anything on there. It's about the results, right? Have you found that contrast between remote versus in person, this feeling of trust at that work?

Laura Grassi:

Yes. And, this is actually a very distinguished thing that I think X-Team needs because, in my previous job, you always have to prove so much that you are actually working. Especially during the Covid pandemic, you have to be all the times like, "Oh, I'm working." And, people are always like, "So, how is it going? Have you finished? Are you finished? When you finish?" And, it's like, "I mean, I already told you I'm going to finish at this time, so just take a while, breathe. I'm working here and it's okay." And, after I actually joined X-Team, I was very surprised because X-Team really trusts you. Like, "If you're here, we believe in you. You are working. You're doing your best but, at the same time, if you have any problem, we are here also to solve you, to try to help you and to kind of understand you." So, it's a very beautiful feeling actually. It's a very comfortable feeling I would say.

Amit Sion:

Trust is such an important word. When you can't see someone when they're on the other side of the world, there's got to be trust. And, it started from the very beginning. So when Dave Rosen founded the company, this was 2006. No one was doing remote then and whilst he's in Melbourne, Australia, his second employee was in Poland, his third one was in Canada. He didn't meet these people in person. He couldn't see that they were working but he assessed that this is a good person, both good from a technology perspective, but also from communication. And then, the rest was trust. Trust that, "I've made the right decision in hiring this person," that, "They're going to be just as invested as I am into what we're trying to deliver for the client and let's see the results." And, I think when you give someone that trust, you'll get that result back from them.

I remember I used to work with people in an office and I'd look over their shoulder and they're playing solitaire or something on their computer or on Facebook. And, again, just because someone's on site and on their computer doesn't mean that they're working. It's about sourcing the right person and then basing on trust and you will get that results back. I really do believe that. And, we see that with the people that we engage with at X-Team.

Can I ask you something? Tomorrow is something very exciting. We've got our X-Summit so I get to meet you in person. We're actually here at the secret location that you don't even know where we are yet. We only give secret coordinates that we pick you up to. I met you for the first time at the summit last year. Can you tell us a bit about what an X-Summit is like?

Laura Grassi:

Well, X-Summit, it's... How could I say? I would say from Olympics, because it's actually pretty much like it. So, you have your team that you don't know which is weird because I don't know my team, I don't know the color of my team. I've been trying to like, "So, Enrique, tell me more." He didn't tell me. Okay? So, it's surprise from the beginning to the end. All the times you're having surprises even more. And, every year we have new things that Enrique... I mean, Enrique do a great job and he's very a secret man.

So, first of all, you receive a letter that this letter... Okay, this year Enrique did a really good job because I take a while to figure out what the thing was. I could never guess, "Oh, I just pull off the sticker," but okay. So, now we have actually the coordinates, but we don't know where we are going. We don't know what actually we need to bring. He did tell us like, "Oh, bring this and that," but you can't be sure because you don't know where you're going and when you arrive there, there's almost like a show, but it's so funny because it looks like TV stuff. It always looks like TV stuff.

And, you get to know your team, you get to know the activities that you might be joining or not because you can't join or you cannot and then you need to compete for your team to win but meanwhile, you are there trying to find stickers to complete your album. The last time I completed. You need to run for the activities, you need to find people and then you start talking and, after a while also X-Team does the best thing ever because they always in the best hotels ever so they have very great food.

Amit Sion:

You mentioned the stickers. What are the stickers of?

Laura Grassi:

So, do you know how... I don't know if in other place have, but I do think you guys might have too, but we have also a album like the World Cup album that you have all the soccer players from the teams and the countries and everything. We have pretty much the same from X-Team. So, all the teams, you have your own sticker. So, you can have your own sticker. I have mine and you actually can complete the album. I actually have this here. I can show you. It's kind of easy to do.

Amit Sion:

Oh, yeah.

Laura Grassi:

Yeah. Because I just completed. So, you actually do have a real album. You have the legends, you have the teams, you need to get the stickers. You need to exchange the stickers to get more and to be able to actually complete so it's very good. That was the best thing that I did last year because I was able to finish.

Amit Sion:

Oh, you persevered. You were trading stickers like no one else to get in early. But, the cool thing I like about that is that the stickers are of every X-Teamer. Every X-Teamer that shows up to the summit is on there as a sticker, like you say, like a soccer hero or something like that because that's how we see X-Teamers. It is very hard to get into X-Team so we really celebrate the people that are there. But Enrique does something really smart there. That sticker trading, again, it's just a opportunity for people to have social interaction, to connect with each other, to become friends, because that's what we're encouraging.

When Dave founded this company, he didn't want to start a company. He wanted to start a community. He wanted somewhere that people can, even though they're from all these different countries, they can feel connected and supporting of each other so it's not just dependent on management to connect you, that it's your dependency on everyone within the community to form that bond together, which are I think quite wonderful in all these elements now to the X-Summit as well.

Laura Grassi:

And, exchanging the stickers is really fun because I met many people that I never saw in my entire life on X-Team, and I was like, "So, I don't know you, but can you me exchange stickers with me?" And, people was always like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I need those too."

Amit Sion:

I like it when people come up to you and they go, "Amit, I've got your sticker of you. Do you want it? I've got doubles." They come to trade it with you, which is so neat. Well, can I ask you, back to you, do you still see yourself as a gamer? Are you still in League of Legends? Are you still very active in gaming?

Laura Grassi:

Yes. I couldn't ever let it go. It's part of me. I love playing. On my Friday nights, I'm actually playing a bunch of games, League of Legends, Overwatch. Everything that I can, I start playing. If there's a new game, I'm not actually... I prefer a more competitive person so I like this kind of game but usually here at home we have the Friday night game and the Saturday night game night. So, we grab some snacks, sometimes we grab wine and we start playing. That's my night. That's my dream.

Amit Sion:

Wine and gaming. I love that. Your husband, is he a gamer as well?

Laura Grassi:

Yes. He's even more a gamer than I am because he plays everything and anything. I am more picky with my games, just I don't have enough skills to actually play hard games so-

Amit Sion:

I like the fact that you've got this nice balance of how you have your gaming, your work, your development work, and then also your social media persona that you have out there. How do you balance all those different versions of yourself?

Laura Grassi:

Well, the developer and gaming one I think is pretty much who I am so it's very easy for me to balance because it's like I have my time to work. If I have something that I really need to do, I prefer just taking more time and actually doing. But, if I'm over, I have all the days to finish something under control, I would be just stopping, I would be playing a little bit. I also study too, because we need to keep moving forward, especially on technology because everything changes every day but also, related to Kibum, at first as she was my hobby.

Right now, I don't think, like I told you, I'm not 100% Kibum, even if people think I am. I am honest there but like I showed you, not all the histories are mine, not all the things that I'm actually really related to. Sometimes I'm just trying to express the people's feelings. So, it became more sometimes a job that I actually need to take care of. So, for example, for me, this is always on Saturday or Sunday. I record everything that I want. I record everything that I need to the week or sometimes for the month.

So, I mean, it's not hard to find a balance there but still, people get very confused and sometimes they actually think like, like I told you, "Oh, your boss going to fire you because of this story." And, like, "Guys, I don't even have this at X-Team". So, yeah. It happens a bunch of times. People really don't get very used to Kibum trying to just create content for people because when I'm creating content, it's not just for me. I'm creating for people to actually look and say, "Oh, I'm living this right now." "Oh, this is so me." "Oh, this actually happened to me." This is why I'm creating content, not just related to myself saying a self-expression, like, "Oh, yeah. This always happen to me. This is happening right now." And, sometimes I tell stories but there are far, far, far way longer than people think. They're usually like, "Oh, this happened today." "No, no, no. I mean, seven years ago or something."

Amit Sion:

It's interesting that you even saying that people would say, "Oh, your boss will fire you for doing all this stuff." When I met you at the summit last year, I was just fascinated to learn from you as to how to do this because I try to use my social media to promote X-Team so much. I really get excited when a client reaches out to me and they say, "Oh, I saw a video that you did on LinkedIn. You keep coming up in my feed. What is this X-Team? Tell me about it. Let's jump on a call." Then I feel that I've succeeded in engaging companies to come and engage with us for X-Team. And so, for me, I feel a responsibility to do more of that. So, I'm always looking around and thinking, "What can I put as content that will draw more people in?" So, I was very interested from you.

And, why I asked all the questions from the very beginning of this is to say, how do you grow an audience? How do you do that? Because, it is something that's very useful in today's life. So many people benefit from being able to grow an audience. Something that you've solved here is a challenge for many companies. In my role, I'm trying to do what you are doing and so I appreciate the opportunity to learn from you, and I'm sure many people out there will do as well.

Laura Grassi:

Well, not at all. You're doing a great job. I always saw your post on LinkedIn and, I mean, I can't tell as a company because I'm just a developer, but I can tell you X-Team kind sells itself because every time I talk about X-Team or someone just see a video or listen about everything we have here, even related to the vault items because people actually love X-Team vault items, they're always like, "So, can I join? Is there any job portal? We need English to join there? There is any role for going?" And, I was like, "Guys, connect to the X jobs portal and find something for you and, yeah, you need English, but-"

Amit Sion:

There's something exciting we've just started doing because we have clients that say to us, "We keep seeing the X-Team developers and they have such cool merch, how can we get some of that?" And, what we've started to do is to, because we have our own internal designers to do all this, personalize merch to suit project teams. So, for example, we just did a really great project with News Corp on OpenAI so we've done this design that we were going to print on a T-shirt which was about the X-Team and News Corp OpenAI project that's going to be provided to the whole team, both X-Teamers and News Corp people alike. We're doing that for Fox. That's something that's really neat and that brings those teams together because we really want to unify them as one team working together which I think is quite neat as well.

Can I ask you, just looking forward, where do you see your aspirations? Is there things that you're wanting to learn more of or do more of in your future, in your career? Have you thought a lot about where does the next few years take you?

Laura Grassi:

Well, in my case, I'm actually trying to not change because I will never stop being a front-end developer, but I'm trying to be more focused on the back-end side. I'm trying to learn GoLang because I do think it's a trend. I do think it's a very common... It's a great language. I've been studying for a while now and this is a great language. There's a reason why people are exchanging, for example, Node for GoLang. So, looking forward to this. I'm trying to become a more back-end developer than actually a front-end. Even though I'm a full-stack, I have been always been more focused on the front-end because I love front-ends. This is why I'm telling you I don't want to actually stop doing this, but I would like to be a full-stack with front-end side and actually working with GoLang in the back-end. So, this is why I'm trying to move forward. I'm trying to get better, to get more experience, to be ready for whatever comes and whatever that is in front of me. Maybe even trying create some content related to GoLang, who knows?

Amit Sion:

How do you find that transition of learning the back-end and strengthening that muscle of yours? Is it a big journey or is it a different mindset that you're approaching to it?

Laura Grassi:

Not related to the language, more about the architecture and structure of the language actually. The language, it's pretty much... I don't know if it's because I already know JavaScript so well so I can get easier new language but related to how you need to think while you're actually writing GoLang code is pretty much different than JavaScript because they work in totally different ways. Even kind of the way you type and you write commands and functions and methods, everything, it's almost pretty much look-alike JavaScript, but the way you need to think to actually do and work with back-end, it's totally a different approach in front end. Back end, you need to be really good with algorithms and structure architecture. Front end, you also need to know some, but you don't actually need to be the best one in the world.

Amit Sion:

I think it's wonderful that you're challenging yourself. You are going beyond the comfort zone to improve your experience, and it makes you more available to do more things, right? Because right now you're doing amazing things for our XTU which, as we discussed, is such a important element of the backbone of the social function of X-Team but I can foresee that in the future you might wish to engage with one of the clients and, like you say, you're interested in working in game development and that might be a function that you lean towards in the future. I think it's something that people should consider is stepping beyond their comfort zone and pushing themselves in that way, which I think is a great thing that you're doing.

Laura Grassi:

Well, thank you. It's been very good to actually study new things.

Amit Sion:

You are such an impressive person because you are both a remote engineer, which a lot of people vie to be. As we said, it takes several years usually to get into X-Team and you're here, you're with us, you're doing some amazing work but you also have such a social presence. So many people know you, and you're getting also to follow your passions and dedicate the time to being a gamer still, to doing all the things in Star Wars that I know you love. What words of inspiration do you have for young people, especially females, because we always want to have more women in tech. It is something that they bring their own unique individuality and their own space. What words of inspiration do you have for people who want to be like you?

Laura Grassi:

Don't be afraid. That's what it is. Sometimes, especially when we are dealing with so many developers, back when I was a junior developer, I always saw the seniors and I was like, "They're perfect developers. I need to be like them. I need to be perfect like this because when I become a senior, I'm going to be the magician of the code." But, when you become one, it's like, you're still a person. You're still looking for someone and saying, "Oh, this person is so much better than I am. How can I become this person?" So, usually it have this afraid of failing that sometimes make us not going further.

So, the thing is, take your time. Not all the people is going to have the same times. Many people see me and say like, "Oh, you're 18, how you're a senior?" No, I'm not. First of all, I'm not 18 but people has their own path. So, I met developers that are too way younger than I am and they're seniors and they're wonderful programmers. At the same time, I saw many older developers, they're still growing up, but they're doing great. So, don't get other people's stories and say that this need to be yours. Everyone has your own time and your own path. Just go, just try and study. That's all.

Amit Sion:

That's wise. And, especially coming from a, as you said, a competitive person, don't let others' stories define yours. And, I think that's a beautiful note for us to go out on. Laura, do you want to share with us where can people find you? I'm sure people have enjoyed this conversation and would like to hear and see more about you.

Laura Grassi:

Or, you can find me on the Instagram or TikTok also on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, I'm as my name, Laura Grassi and on Instagram and also on TikTok, you can find me as Kibum.png.

Amit Sion:

But, not on Musical.ly, right? That we can't find on?

Laura Grassi:

No. There's no longer Musical.ly. TikTok just bought it.

Amit Sion:

Wonderful. Laura, thank you so much. Such a pleasure to have this formal conversation with you, but I'm looking forward to seeing you in person tomorrow at the X-Summit. A real pleasure. Thank you.

Laura Grassi:

Thank you so much for the invitation. Thank you so much for everybody working there because I know it involves many people to do such a great show so thank you so much.